Time to move...

WOW
First we are told that the airfield, if enhanced, would be NO WHERE near the size of Hartsfield and then .... we need to look at all the business opportunities that are related to one of the BUSIEST airfields in nation as if that could happen at our ONE runway wonder. (There will be county eminent domain action and buyouts in the future prior to that degree because the airfield would have to grow)
But lets be fair and let the visions of sugar plums dance, after-all tis the season as long as all those backward, uninformed, doomsday worriers comparing our quality of life to Hapeville, Forrest Park,and Peachtree Dekalb are acknowledged. "Gwinnett is Great" but it's NOT immune to the business life cycles even if we get just one more "project", unless we get the Crazy Horse... (it seems they may looking for a new home YUM).

This will cost more than anyone could forecast and the leaders that vote it in will be LONG gone from office when the real bill is due. Send in the clowns and be ready to buy the million dollar firetrucks the airport will be required to have on hand that will be deployed nowhere else.

Thanks for the comment. This is an opinion piece, as labeled. The final decision on what happens to Briscoe Field rests with the county leaders, which the RFP makes clear.

Atlanta needs an alternate airport. Gwinnett's Briscoe Field is the best choice. It is located next to a limited access highway and a large industrial area. It already has an FAA tower and it would be the next step for a county that has it's own professional sports teams and concert arena. This airport belongs to all of the people of Gwinnett County not just a few hundred Lawrenceville residents that oppose it.

Atlanta has an alternate airport, it's called Charlie Brown and Peachtree-DeKalb. How many airports does Atlanta REALLY need?

And studies have already shown it's not the best choice. Fact not wishful thinking.

Gosh! You mean having a commercial airport could do for Gwinnett what Hartsfield has done for Clayton County?

Wow! I can't wait!

@Tracy

The "few hundred people" around Lawrenceville is actually 65.000 who live within two miles of the airport. Be honest. What do you think about those people? Do you think they will simply bow down and accept a lowered quality of life and even more depressed property values?

Before the commissioners approve this they need to ask themselves "How much will this cost us in noise abatement, lowered property tax revenue and legal fees?"

Any decision that doesn't include these thoughts would be sorely lacking in foresight.

I agree completely. This project is about commissioners being paid off. They aren't listening to the people and as this proceeds they may face recall petitions as they should.

Let's not throw the Commissioners under the bus quite yet. It's my understanding that several commissionprs are not in favor of commercial air service operating out of Briscoe Field. Privatization is another matter entirely. As a municipal airport, Briscoe Field is a financial albatross around the county's neck. It should be privatized so that it is no longer restricted by federal regulations that apply because of its current status.

Any time government is involved in a process, specific protocol must be followed both to comply with regulations and to assurre that the best interests of citizens are served. On many occasions, options that are unacceptblte to many must still be investigated to follow the proper process and/or to conclusively demonsrate that those options are or aree not acceptable or viable. If proper procedures aren't followed now, you can be assured that the issue will come up again, costing the taxpayers additional expense and possibly creating more uncertainty. Regardless of whether you're in favor against privatization or commercialization, (and keep in mind that these are two separate and distinct issues) the best approach is to become involved in the process and make your feelings known in the appropriate forum.

Once apon a time, many Gwinnett residents thought that privitization would be a good item to review as it makes conservative sense at a 30,000 foot level. Then we were introduced to Propeller Air, Fly Gwinnet Forward and the forums. While it is true that privitization and passenger service are indeed 2 seperate items, it has become quite clear that those seeking commercial traffic view the two as ONE item. Sadly, we have come to he conclusion that the middle ground of privitization, even if just for a little uncertain increase, will result in commercialization attempts and the county coffer LIABILITY it represents. Has anyone heard about American Airlines?

To whoever "R" is above. I have never been to New York, however if the new Briscoe Field offers a nonstop flight there, I may just take a trip up there since it will be so convenient.

Tracy,
We tried to get a county wide vote but it was denied - check back editions aprox Feb/Mar 2010 of the Gwinnett Post. Lets see who owns Airtran? AirTran Airways, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Southwest Airlines... flys into Hartsfield

A direct flight to one of NY's big two or the cheaper stepchild Newark from Briscoe?. The words Air travel to NY and convenient in the same sentence, unless your with Propeller Air, Forgetaboutit!!!

As to the county's ability to negotiate a contract that will ensure our county coffers are protected, just read the superior court trash program injunction, lawsuit transcripts, the settlement agreement and the contract that resulted.
If I were Propeller, I'd hit this county (cash cow) TOO!
We are a "MARK" of nationwide renown at this point - someone will break our credit rating - apparently too big a short-term payday is at stake.

Sadly there's no crime in the "uninformed" actions of elected officials as there is apparently no law against "stupid". You can be thought a fool by the grand jury but it won't be enough to have charges filed. Its up to voters to do everything possible to prevent the execution of ill conceived projects as that is our only recourse.

The Commissioners are trying to keep the temperature down by claiming that privatization and commercial service are separate issues but that's a fairy tale. There is NO privatization business model that works without commercial service in the equation. Rule out commercial service, and all you will see is the door hitting the RFP responders in the a**.

I sense that the the public is moving more in favor of allowing for commercial service at Briscoe as we learn more about it.

It would obviously bring new jobs to the area and would help turn around that area in Lawrenceville. Let's be honest here -- that area is declining quickly and needs economic development.

Yes, let's move forward with privatization and commercial service with a limited sized airport.

Daryl - you're absolutely correct (Sarcasm on) more and more want our government to resemble Atlanta in the airport concession bid foul up. source Fox 5
We have learned so much that the advice of IMG ( 100k plus and counting) to have a record of solid support, a public vision for the airfield and recommended citizen involvement in a RFP development was set aside so the county could issue an RFP request with a deadline in Feb 2012, before the citizen panel even finishes its work.
For leaders who claim we need facts, little details like this, FAA reports and county resident input is just a waste time...
A "ONE Runway Wonder" needs to be under our 2011 Christmas tree, cause I got to catch a flight to Disney for the fireworks. Gee, maybe we can fly direct to Collin TX, they need the flight volume too! GOT to redistribute that citizen wealth and time is short you know... maybe we can have a Timothy Geithner concourse?
(Sarcasm off)
Let's increase our future county liability in real terms for only the POSSIBILITY of short term gain based on creative accounting worthy of the John Corzine School of Business Finance, if it goes south - the main instigators will be LONG gone and the rube property owners THROUGHOUT Gwinnett will pay for it all.

Mr Bannister, thank you for the shaft that just keeps sticking us, perhaps you can get a cameo or technical adviser position on AMC's The Walking Dead .

R, take off the clown makeup and unmask yourself. You obviously are working for Ringling Bros part time.

The citizens overwhelmingly want to move forward. It's a problem you seem to have: that virtually no one is agreeing with you, except for a few hundred people who cannot rationally discuss the issue or learn about it from credible sources.

You are reduced to making things up in order to keep scaring people, but they are figuring you out.

That's the problem you are now having with running your scare-tactic approach: you have to stretch the truth more and more in order to get attention.

No one has proposed anything on the scale of Hartsfield, and no amount of falsehoods or lies will change that for you. You know full well that the idea being discussed is a ten gate airport, with a maximum of five flights an hour going out of it? And in planes quieter than many corporate that are already flying from Briscoe?

You say many false things to try to frighten people. What is your motive? I think it's politics, and you lost your election recently because of it.

It's not a matter what people want at this point! Every study that's been done points to the fact that it's not feasible at Brisco. I don't understand what part about the facts that people don't understand???

Folks, we love the comments on these and all stories. But remember the terms of use. http://suwanee.patch.com/terms

Daryl – Nothing posted has been made up. As to scaring people, that I can’t address that way or another but maybe they are thinking, studying or yes laughing. (That helps too by the way - some folks are apparently wrapped way too tight)
Those interested in the best choice for all, welcome challenges and take every opportunity to educate or be educated. We have used the internet; metro news papers from across the nation, FAA reports and are NOT thrilled. I was in attendance at the 12 Stone church meeting - the Pro expansion side had about 18 minutes of speaker time LEFT, while those apparently “against” ran out of time with plenty of spokesmen left, in a packed house that REALLY stood out as did the crowd's reaction. This overwhelmingly contradicts the claim that most residents are for this project. Some may not care for differing opinions and that’s fine, but when it comes to county business, we ALL need to be sure we have vetted everything carefully. True, the plan we are supposedly to be offered from Propeller is a possible ten gate. Again this group collected resumes from the unemployed for a project when they didn’t even have so much as a memorandum of understanding in place. That means we had better check what we are told at EVERY point. Unfortunately, based on the way this issue is being handled and our experiences traveling, a concern is this MAY be a first PHASE build, NOT the FINAL result. Pardon me, I have to adjust my BIG shoes now…

R, so....let me get this straight. Your rationale is that you aren't 'thrilled' with it. That you have not actually read the FAA report (which stated the opposite of your contention). You were at 12 Stone and base your theory that most people in the county don't want privatization and commercial service because there were 18 unused minutes at one meeting. And that while 10 gates may be ok, more gates would be bad? And you didn't like the idea of collecting resumes yet?

Seriously?

I was hoping for facts.

Here are mine: 1. This will clearly bring many thousands of jobs to the area, directly and indirectly. This is true for community airports with commercial service all over the country. 2. The Briscoe/Lawrenceville is in rapid decline already and needs (needs!) economic development and growth. 3. Homeowners in the area will likely see increases in their property values as jobs come back to the area and the boarded up buildings that are all over the place in that area return to life. 4. The county needs revenue badly. We can avoid tax increases by generating new lines of revenue -- such as the airport and the businesses that would happen as a result of it becoming an airport with scheduled commercial service.

Daryl, plz share with us what business interest(s) you may have that are pertinent to, or affected by the Gwinnett County Airport. The tone of your spam screams dollars & cents.

Say ye$ to Bri$coe Field! Gwinnett does not have to be number one in home foreclosures in the state of Georgia. We went from the fastest growing county to the fastest shrinking county in just a few years. If somebody has a better idea to turn it all around, please I am ready to listen.

And Tracy, what happens to all the poor homeowners whose property vale will plummet even more when this happens?

@ Daryl
Here are some facts, or studies,for you, that clearly PROVE what affect a nearby airport has on property values.

" Meta-Analysis of Airport Noise and Hedonic Property Values" (Nelson, 2003) ,"Airport Expansion and Property Values" (McMillen 2004) , "The Effect of Airport Noise on Housing Values" (Booz-Allen and Hamilton 1994), "Sea-Tac International Airport Impact Mitigation Study" (Helmuth, Obate & Kassebaum 1997) , "Airport Diminution in Value" (Bell 1997) ...... "A Technical Note on Aircraft Noise and Its Cost to Society" (Lazic & Golazewski 2006) ..... "The Impact of Airport Noise on Residential Real Estate" (Bell 1999)

"The Impact of Airport Noise on Residential Property Values" (Muldoon 2003)..... Impact of Airport Noise on Property Values, Case 0f SIA" (Chalermpong 2010)..... "County of Orange Loss of Property Value and Property Tax Revenue Attributable to El Toro Airport Noise" (Bales 2002) .... "No Plane, Big Gain: Airport Noise and Residential Property Values in the Reno-Sparks Area" (Kaufman & Espy 1997)

These studies prove how airports, big or small., low noise or high noise, cause nearby property values to drop.

Time after time after time I have begged the Briscoe commercialization proponents to provide just one...ONE... research based study to back up their claims that property values in Lawrenceville would rise because of an expansion and commercialization of Briscoe.
They have failed to provide such a study. You know why?

It doesn't exist.

There is no research that backs up proponents' claims that an airport raises property values. Instead, proponents take a different approach: They try to tell us we are ignorant of the facts...when in fact, it is just the opposite!

Ain't people funny?

C'mon guys.I'm beggin ya! ONE study! Uno! Just one!

(Okay crickets and tree frogs: Do your thing)

Two more requests:
1. Proponents - Please tell us what your thoughts are regarding the people who live near Briscoe?
2. I think people who comment on these Briscoe posts should tell where they live....and be honest about it. I am particularly interested in Tracy Lee's area.

I'll start. I live in unincorporated Lawrenceville...two miles due north of the runway.

I would be under the east inbound/outbound flight path off of Harbins Road in Dacula.

Great posts Mark and DW. Facts are a stubborn thing. Daryl's been very quiet since he was asked for his affiliations and where he lives. (see also 'please do not give up" post.).
I live two miles from as the crow flies from the runway in Apalachee Farms.

You're quoting FlyBriscoe? LOL!!!

You don't have to look very fat to see what happens to property values. Look at Peachtree-Dekalb, look at Hartsfield, tell me what happened to property there?

So far I have stated my full name, where I live, and the fact that I'm running for county commissioner in district 3. How disingenuous. So where or when did I "claim otherwise" anything about Propeller or Scott Fuller paying for the proposal? Where in the world did you get this from? But of course they'll pay for the proposal. They stand to gain from it.
Your question of me "oppose(ing) helping property values in Gwinnett...". Again, nice try. The premise of your question is incorrect. It will affect home property values negatively unless you own commercial or potential commercial property near the airport. Hmmmmm.
Tell me also at what point I made it dirty or personal. I have stated my positions clearly. You don't have to read between the lines on where I stand. Briscoe expansion/commercialization is detrimental to district 3.

Daryl You have made statements that citizens are OVERWHELINGLY for this. I challenged that factoid based on real world GWINNETT County FACTS. If you have an issue-please view the full video of the meeting, a heck of a lot more than just me aren’t thrilled and I originally went there undecided! But the longer this goes on and the process turns it has taken, pressed me firmly into the NO column. The claim that this will bring JOBs upward of 20K was disputed by using a FAR larger project of a MULTI state pipeline. Again this is a FACT that can be verified.
I have read the FAA report which leaves me at a LOSS as to why individuals would even continue to consider this project. “Clearly will bring many jobs” based on what? Present a payroll example or two – till then it’s smoke. I suggest you could go back to all those areas you claim increased SOLELY based on the airport presence. Richmond VA listing is a blast by the way, it appears their value went up AFTER we got their old ball team and our Stadium deal … now there’s a real factoid for you.
I NEVER stated that ten gates would be OK. What was stated is that is supposedly the proposal offered by Propeller Air, which seems to be the ONLY driver of this BOONDOOGLE. I DON’T believe it’s a viable long term project at that number.

I mentioned the resume collection FACT because while legal, it’s a sleazy attempt to sway the project at any cost- apparently honesty be dammed. The reputation of the business partner is ALL we really have since this plan hasn’t been done ANYWHERE before per their own admission. This little maneuver on their part demonstrates to my satisfaction that “zero trust” should be conveyed to them or data “they” supply. Doing a deal with them or a subsidiary would be a potential disaster for the Gwinnett taxpayer.
PLEASE, PLEASE present just one study from ANY Residential realtor that supports your claims in increased value, Coldwell Banker doesn’t take your position. Yes I saw your quoted website by the way.

As to revenue for the county, let’s take a breather on that one. We who live here have seen what happens when the government gets its money over the past 5 years. We need real accountability first. We could generate jobs and revenue hands over fist if we chose to accept spent nuclear fuel here (ala Yucca Mountain) and bury that under Briscoe or any county park - but I believe there would be some blowback. (Hyperbole - don’t let your head explode) DEFLECTION - Doesn’t FLY

Tracy Please keep posting you win converts against your position each time. The project a done deal? Interesting - please tell us more - in print.
I didn’t need the sound, been around planes too much as it is but I enjoyed the non committal responses of the Pro side and the DEMONMSTRATED lack of civility and distain that has become its hallmark…

@ Daryl

here's what's hilarious....
1. I provide you with many research based studies, one of which is 17 years old (not 15), but several are current. You disregard these.
2. You provide a graph compiled by Fly Briscoe that isn't a research based study at all! In fact, the graph is meaningless because it doesn't have a control. A real study would show what those houses would be worth if they were further from the airport than they are. (Statistics 101)
3.Where a person lives is very important in this argument. It shows if their motive is based on quality of life or making a profit at the expense of others.
4. Tracy is a "he"....not a "she."

@ Daryl

Regarding the "citizens are overwhelmingly in favor of this" is hollow. Repeatedly I have asked Fly Gwinnett Forward, Landmark and Propeller for the actual questions that were asked in their "survey." Repeatedly, they have told me they would get those to me.

Nada.

Know why? Either the survey doesn't exist or the questions were so slanted that they are ashamed to show them.

What kind of people release survey results without showing the survey??

@ Tracy, so far the debate has been proper. I posted the terms to keep it that way. Sometimes emotional issues get out of hand, and that's not fair.

I understand the resistance to the project from people who live near the airport. I think the airport should be privatized. I also think that commercial flights and profits will be the only way that privatization will work. We have seen what privatization has done to Stone Mountain Park and Lake Lanier Islands. Both venues have improved greatly, if there was no profit to be made in the venture who would take it on? If this is done right, the county will let private investments take the risks and then let the free market decide if commercial flights are the future of Briscoe Field. I am sick of studies like the multi million dollar one they did on the Peach Pass lanes debacle. Briscoe Field could be a beautiful modern commercial airport that Gwinnett could be proud of. It would support the other attractions already located in Gwinnett like the stadium and the arena. Somewhere along the lines Gwinnett County decided to give up its rural roots and have their own professional sports teams, public bus systems, mega malls, and concert arenas. This airport project should not come as a surprise to anyone. It is a logical step in the evolution of Gwinnett County. Imagine being able to actually keep our libraries open, lower property taxes, Millions in federal transportation funds and even being able to pay our police officers and firefighters what they are really worth.

As I've stated, I recently decided to get involved because of the history of the lack of ethics on the part of the BOC. (see my post in the Dacula Patch.)
For the record when the mall was built I lived in Barrow County. The mall was a private venture with many benefits built during the economic boom. Tax payers have benefited and this was good progress. The stadium required taxpayers funds and is costing each of us daily.
Nice attempt on the Mayberry comment. Our growth is inherent. But we must be responsible in providing for it. My vision is to give us an Alpharetta type environment as opposed to a PDK/Chamblee type; a John's Creek not a Charlie Brown/Mableton area.
These areas, while very populated, have attracted many corporate entities that have provided many jobs. How did they do it without an airport? Amazing. Planting seeds is great if you plant the correct ones.
Getting back to 'where I've been', For the last three years, I have been volunteering my time as the President of the Apalachee Farms HOA. We have 600 homes located 2-3 miles from the airport.
I'm not sure what your implication is by asking where I was. I won't ask where you were.

The Civic center was developed as a year around access venue and was put in at a time when Gwinnett could afford to cover operations. The staduim was done in secret with ZERO public input before the "grand surprise". The staduim is a 6 month out of the year venue, not nearly as valuable as the Civic Center, so it doesn't compare as a success. In fact the Civic Center has carried the Stadium to some degree already. The county board left work it was chartered by the state to complete left undone ( County Shared Services) to chase this ball dream. WE were in default BEFORE the ground was even broken to build Gwinnett Stadium, then throw in the grand jury probe, its published results and the indictments - these effectively neuter any "Good Will" the commission should be extended. This isn't the 1980s anymore and our leaders track record over the past 5 years does NOT mirror that decade. So we hear the input from IMG's recommendations and watch our leaders pay for advice and ignore it - we saw this before with the trash program and it will have the same impact here.

We are evolving and those who are in opposition are very concerned with what we could evolve into if this goes wrong. ( or even perhaps if it goes right) The POSSIBLE opportunity for jobs tied to this project are just not going to be large enough to swing the economy as painted. We recognize the desire our county goverment has to get funding from sources that don't require constant contact with the citizens, but the libraries wont be funded and property taxes won't be reduced by a ten gate operation. Regardless of claims, that like a mall, if "it goes under the county will have no funds at stake" is just plain wrong, because we have taken FEDERAL funds, there will always be a 2 or 3 party team tied at the hip.
If the private entity fails, Gwinnett will be required to run the airport at whatever service level exists at the time of the private failure. This responsibility has been confirmed publicly by IMG for all to hear at least TWICE now. So if we use a Mall as a comparison, how would Gwinnett have been affected if it had been required to pick up GWINNETT PLACE operations a few years ago? So this really wouldn't be a pure private investment situation. We seem to be continuing on an expectation of involving ever greater amounts of Federal dollars to support our projects, which is EXACTLY how we got our bus system and its needed subsidies to operate, the HOT lanes at a time when we owe more than 16 Trillion going on 20? Promises are easy with other people's money.

I CERTAINLY WOULD SUPPORT TURNING BRISCO FIELD INTO A SHOPPING COMLEX POSITIONED RIGHT ON WHERE THE RUNWAY IS TODAY. THE TOWER COULD BE TURNED INTO AN ELEVATOR SHAFT FOR THE SECOND AND HIGHER LEVELS. THIS INDEED WOULD PUT A FINAL END TO THE AIRPORT CONTROVERSY AND WOULD ENHANCE ECONOMIC GROWTH TO THE ENTIRE AREA. NOT TO MENTION THE TAX REVENUE GAINED BY BOTH THE COUNTY AND CITY OF LAWRENCEVILLE.

As a United Air Lines frequent flyer based in Gwinnett County, i would welcome the opportunity to fly in and out of Briscoe Field. There are a number of airports across the country (John Wayne, for instance) that is surrounded by viable residential real estate. This is due to restrictions on time slots for landings and take-offs. New technologies in aircraft design and propulsion systems are making them almost innocuous to the surrounding environment. Making the airport a mall is simply an absurd suggestion and it's highlighted by the fact that the person who suggested it typed in ALL CAPS. One can simply drive down 124 and see abandoned retail real estate. My friends in Gwinnett, you're at a fork in the road. You have the opportunity to take a new venture or continue in a path with declining tax revenue, county shortages and limited growth potential. I would opt for the upside, especially when it can be financed by private enterprise. If you want to get this country back, it's going to take business to get there and it can start with a beacon at Briscoe Field.

The taxpayers will foot the bill if things don't work out... and based on numerous past experiences, it won't.

I was sitting outside on my patio this last weekend and a private jet came over my house from Briscoe. I can tell you right now I want no more of that over my head. You can talk all you want about how quiet the new jets are but based on my personal experience in being under the east flight path of the airport, that's a bunch of crap.